Bone arrowheads

Knight of Dissonance · Post by **Knight of Dissonance** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:40 pm

Hello!
I have a krim-tartar bow which is only at 35#. And lately I have been making arrowheads using bone. It?s of course pretty light, and I thought that it might be an advantage for my bow because it?s not too heavy. The arrow will hopefully go further as well at better in precision shooting. Is this totally wrong or would you recommend using bone arowheads, or are there any other benefits?

Thanks for all replies!

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:01 am

Bone arrowheads are fine. Many people in Asia still use them.

You need to keep them small so that they don't break so easily. Also, you are losing some advantage of weight up-front for stabilizing the flight of the arrow, so you may need higher fletching (which cancels out your speed advantage!)

S

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:39 am

The Turks used very small bone points on pishrev and some other types of arrows. They were almost conical with a slightly curved surface. The arrow shafts were barrelled and the tips were only 1/8 inch at the base.

With a small eared bow like a Crimean Tatar, you could possibly use fletchings as small as Turkish puta or azmayish arrows, but if you use long arrows like the Crimean ones there might be a problem.

Fletching size is related to the smoothness of your release among other things. Some styles of thumb ring are not as smooth as others when releasing the string and this can cause problems. If the release is smooth, you can use smaller feathers. Also the balance of the arrow is important and the distance of the target. The first is up to you. When shooting at near targets, larger fletching is best. For distant targets, you can use smaller fletching. However, if your release is not smooth, the arrow will wobble and use up its enegy trying to straighten out.

redhawk · Post by **redhawk** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:04 am

Bede and Stephen, I agree 100%.

I guess the most important thing is the release and to keep your body in line with the ballistic curve till the arrow has reached the target. Just as well important is the proper fit of the arrow?s nock and the string.

Bede, could you please post some pictures of the turkish bone arrowheads.

Michael

Knight of Dissonance · Post by **Knight of Dissonance** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:46 pm

Thanks guys!
I?ll try out a couple of different fletching sizes. And see how it goes. But I manage to get the up-front weight pretty high, because after I have mounted the arrowhead on the arrow I lash a cotton thread around the joint which I then coat with glue, so it gets rock hard. This also enables me to have the arrowhead bigger without breaking.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:27 pm

First there are some old Turkish arrows; the top two are bone tipped.

Then there is a bone arrow head I made in the Turkish style. It has a small hole bored in the base into which a tenon carved on the arrow shaft is glued.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:38 am

the most important thing is the release and to keep your body in line with the ballistic curve till the arrow has reached the target.

Not sure what that means.. Once the arrow has left the bow, you're done.

redhawk · Post by **redhawk** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:17 am

Bede, thanks for the pictures. I?ve made such bone-arrowheads but I did never found some historical evidence of them. I made them for to be allowed to shoot at tournaments, where barbed arrowheads are not permitted.

Stephen, you are really done when the arrow has left the string.
What I mean is the same as: be quiet and release. Many archers did not keep the bow quiet till the arrow has left the string, they "leave the target and their focus" during the release.

Michael

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:16 am

Ok, got you now.

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:26 am

Let me tell you that the Turkish bone arrowheads -called "soya"- were for flight arrows only. They've never been used for target shooting. Target arrows were tipped with metal points having the same bullet-like shape. They were called "zeytuni temren" which means "olive-like metal point". They differ from soya in its connection to the shaft. Bede explained how soya is attached to the shaft. Zeytuni temren has a needle-like rear end and this part is inserted to the shaft (A cavity is prepared beforehand of course). Then the shaft is reinforced with sinew wrapping and hot glue.

Although bone arrowheads have never been used by Turks, American natives have used such arrowheads for target and hunting purposes. They look very similar to that of Knight of Dissonance's. As far as I can re-call they are pictured in Traditional Bowyer's Bible Vol. 3.

Whether the light tip negatively effects the flight stability is something I can speculate about. The so called "Forward of Centre" (FOC) must be around 8-10 % to provide good arrow flight according to modern time archer's knowledge. But turkish flight arrows have "negative" (!) FOC! I examined with pointless arrows (low fletching profile up to the nock groove, plastic nocks) shot from a Grozer Turkish bow and with a thumbring. It was surprising to see that they flew perfect when the release is clean. With a 3-finger (Mediterrenian) release it was impossible to avoid the collapse of the arrow.

Romain · Post by **Romain** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:57 am

seems to me that the thumb release always shakes the arrow more that mediterranean release...

maybe because my thumb skill is low.

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:08 pm

Romain,

I used to have the same problem. I've overcome it by switching to another spine. But practice is the key anyway. After only several months of training I now can shoot the previous shafts without dramatic fishtailing.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

Murat,
Does anyone make zeytuni temren these days? They would not have to be hardened steel to useful.

Incidientally, I have had the same experience with pointless arrows. I shot a set for a year but the wood at the tip eventually compressed laterally.

Murat ?zveri · Post by **Murat ?zveri** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:51 am

Bede,

My colleagues and I try to make replicas of many archery tackle. One of them made a few zeytuni temren but I don't know whether he mounted them to a shaft and shot these arrows. I'll get this info for you.

The good flight of pointless shafts surprisingly proves that the principles concerning FOC must be discussed. In my book I suggested a new term for FOC, instead of translating it to Turkish. It is "Ağırlık Merkezindeki Kayma" (AMK) (approx. "the displacement of the gravity centre") which describes both "forward" and "backward" location of the point. This would be the only solution to measure the old flight arrows and get rational data from them.

M.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:38 am

Murat,
Paterson discusses the balance points of Turkish flight arrows in Saracen Archery. He discusses the Centre of Gravity and the point at which forces on the arrow can be considered to act through, the Centre of Pressure.

In normal arrows the CP is behind the CG, but in Turkish flight arrows it was in front on it. This resulted in the rate of tipping of the the arrow to be less than a tangent to its trajectory. So a flight arrow was gliding in the last part of its travel instead of being exactly point first.

I am working from memory, so I might not have quoted that accurately. The section involved is the commentary on Taybugha's chapter on flight archery.