Ottoman bows not Turkish?

Alina · Post by **Alina** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:18 am

I remembered reading in a source (I forget which one) that Ottomans preferred shorter siyahs on their bows. And most of the reproductions and originals I've seen bear that out. Well, today I was going through David Nicolle's book "Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era" paying special attention to the bows that I saw. What struck me was that images of short siyah bows in the Islamic regions were lacking. However, many of the Byzantine/Balkan images had short siyah bows like the kind I would associate with the Ottomans. Grouping bows loosely, I see a lot of similarity amongst Hungarian, Chinese, Mongolian, Tatar, and Indo-Persian bows, particularly in regards to the length of the siyahs. I know that the grouping is too loose and there are significant regional differences amongst the groups I just mentioned, but as a general trend, it made me wonder if Ottoman bows weren't more Byzantine in origin than Turkish. I'd welcome your thoughts on the matter.

Alina

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:12 am

Alina,
Looking at the original art work with careful dating it possible to see a development of the later Ottoman bows through Western Iranian Mongol-influenced bows. The small tipped siyahs start to appear in Jalayir paintings in the mid 1300s. they probably went west with the Turkmen migrations in the mediaeval period.

The Byzantines were strongly influenced by steppe tribes who came out of the East and descended on the Balkans. However, their art has many classical influences and bow depiction varied in accuracy. In the Balkans there are paintings from the late Mediaeval period that show bows with pronounced Mongol characteristics. These bows may have developed into Crimean Tatar bows. The Turks changed the design of the kasan (ridged part of the siyah) by eliminating the built-up angle at its base. They also removed the setback in the handle to allow a normal draw with a shorter bow.

Alina · Post by **Alina** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:53 am

Interesting stuff, Bede, thanks for that. I was wondering about the Turkic/Steppe Culture influence on the Byzantines as well. I guess causation is a particularly difficult historical nut to crack. Looking at some of Adam's Turkish bow reproductions, I can see the innovation you're talking about in the kasan.

Alina

Tanakan · Post by **Tanakan** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:04 am

Alina wrote:the Turkic/Steppe Culture influence on the Byzantines as well.

Alina

Interesting. Turkish culture couldn't be influenced on Byzantines because Turks (Ottoman) improved far beyond of Bizans. Ottoman Emperior was and still remaining having the most advanced bow making and archery skills.(googling ;Tozkoparan İskender). It is in Turks genes.

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:39 pm

Friend, you've misunderstood what she means. She agrees with you. What her sentence means can also be said as "how the byzantines were influenced by the Turks."

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:30 am

There was a considerable influence on the eastern Romans by Turkic/steppe cultures. Huns, Avars, Magyars, Pechenegs all found mercenary employment in eastern Roman armies that saw the benefit/necessity to adopt certain dress and equipment among its own cavalry. Until the Ottomans they had been very successful in turning away various threats and judiciously playing one off against another or using these steppe armies to do their own dirty work.