Flagella dei

sbartels · Post by **sbartels** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:33 am

Of course the Turk base also has massive fiberglass limbs, so these bows should be roughly in the same league (because of the comparable "technology"). The grozer might have some advantages due to higher loading at brace height, though. But it might not make such a lot of a difference.
The laminated Grozer bows are in a different league altogether (price, too!).

jonR · Post by **jonR** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:02 am

Heres a good site to compare bow pics and prices.
I have delt with Rainer a couple of times and if he has it you get asap.
And his prices are not half bad.
http://www.eastern-archery.com/eukaffkaframe.html
jonR

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:02 am

I can confirm the eastern archery site, Reiner is a real gentleman. I suggested his site to other archers at my club who have since acquired bows from him.
I have tried Kaffka's Hungarian and Mongol models and I have seen bows made by Toth. I would argue that bows by Kassai and Grozer perform better (that is not to say the others were disappointing) and look better. I can not comment on the Turkish model as I did not try it, only Grozer's.

Mike,
Do you go to the Tewkesbury Mediaeval Fayre? It's a great weekend event with plenty to see. A couple of guys from Hungary always turn up selling bows, they usually have a big selection of Hungarian, Turkish and Mongol models and the prices are very reasonable, even negotiable depending how cheeky you are.

sbartels · Post by **sbartels** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:56 pm

I, too, have only had very positive experiences with Eastern Archery. Reiner has now extended the range of bows he carries, making it harder to choose...

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:03 pm

Thanks for that site jonR, looks like I have a nice selection to choose from in the future.
I am actually surprised as to how many successful traditional bow makers there are out there.

Mike

jonR · Post by **jonR** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:20 am

M Hardman.
Heres an interesting offer from Grozer.( I have one) If you get it without the arrow shelf you can shoot it either split finger or with a thumb ring.
one of the more versitle of grozers bows. Well in MHO
Somewhere in the archives I have a post giving its proformance. Don't have them on paper anymore.
I did get a couple of more bows from Reiner but thats another post on bow differences.
http://www.eastern-archery.com/tradhuntrecgrozer.html
jonR

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:47 am

Has anyone tried shooting a bow with an arrow shelf with a thumb ring draw?, It might be interesting to see how that changes the flight of the arrow.

That hunting recurve looks a bit like his new mongol bow, I suppose effective designs are similar.

Mike

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:11 pm

Well one benefit of the shelf is consistency and it seems quite feasible that using a left handed bow (shelf on the right) should work fairly well with a thumb release. I made a leather grip similar to the ones that Grozer offers and found that my accuracy was improved because the arrow position is always the same.

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:02 pm

Are there any historical arrow shelf examples then? besides the turkish siper, even then I dont know if it was used outside flight archery .

Mike

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:47 pm

I think that there were tied on arrow shelves used in some parts of Africa and the Americas. Modern arrow rests are a twentieth century invention.

A form of siper, called a navak-e qabza (the Persian name for siper), was tied onto the side of the bow. It was an overdraw and was used in war. It is described in the Hidayat ar-Rami.

There were at least three forms of rings worn on the bow hand thumb or forefinger to support the arrow used in Turkey, Iran, Mongolia and Korea. The last two have been photographed in use in Mongolia and Korea.

jonR · Post by **jonR** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:36 am

Reiner told me it was basically a Mongol that was all laminated wood. no leather covering on the limbs.
If I ever get back to shooting again I may try the Crim-Tartar. Always had a feeling it may be a fun bow.
jonR

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:26 pm

I have find these diagrams on the net.

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:29 pm

And this one. I don't know nothing about the Liskany bows.

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:27 pm

jonR wrote:Reiner told me it was basically a Mongol that was all laminated wood. no leather covering on the limbs.
If I ever get back to shooting again I may try the Crim-Tartar. Always had a feeling it may be a fun bow.
jonR

The Grozer Crim-Tatar is, it's what I'm normally using as my strength bow. Very frustrating, I'm still at only 25-26 in. of draw... but after that, boy does my 80-pounder feel a lot easier to pull! For the record, that curve they show with the TRH Magyar matches my experience exactly: there's a spot where it gets real easy to pull, but then if you want the rest of your shaft inside the bow, you're going to work for it.

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:51 pm

With a draw force curve like that where is the peak efficency of the bow? I wonder if it actually does any good to pull through the final few inches, as I would have thought the steep curve represented the dreaded 'stacking'.

Mike

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Eastern Archery

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