shooting technique

[ginni]

Hi fellows!

I have some problems with my shooting style.

I shot with a hwarang bow bought from Thomas Duvernay, 69 lbs@28", in the koreean style at 33'-34'' draw lenght.

I have three dry shots until now, one because the arrow nock was damaged, but I don't know what was the problem with the others two. The arrows was broken and have slap my forearm badly in the moment when I have shot. I not have another problems, arrows go where I aim, the arrows don't slap my bow...

In order to put torque in the bow hand, so that the bow make about a short twist to right, I grip the bow with an angle at about 45 degrees, and the draw direction is not the same with the axis of the bow in the relaxed position. So, at full draw result a lot of torque. See the sketch I have made:

picasaweb.google.co.uk/le...6894272466

First time I have believe that the arrow was very weak, was a 80lbs spine.
Today I have broke the third arrow in the shooting moment, the string have detach from the bow and the bow have drop down from my hand. But this time the arrow was stiff, about 110 lbs.

I wonder if I do something wrong.

After that I have try to change my technique, pushing the the bow hand and drawing in the same direction of the axis of the bow and I have try to twist the wrist to the left only in the moment of the shot.
That work almost well, but sometime arrow slap the grip and go to right, the twist seem to be less controllable this way.

So, can somebody help me? How is the right technique?

Please excuse my bad english.

[Thomas Duvernay]

Hi Eugen,

I would really need to see your form in order to figure out what the cause of the problem is. However, I can venture a couple guesses.

Are you shooting with fingers or a thumb ring? It sounds like fingers, due to the arm slap. Torquing the bow would work well when shooting with a thumb ring, but I think it might be a bit disadvantageous with fingers; it would make the string turn towards the outside of the bow, but your arrow is on the opposite side. Try not torquing the handle and see what happens.

Also, make sure you are gripping the bow correctly. The handle should be diagonal across the palm, with the bottom (the wide part of the handle) placed into the heel of the palm. Grip the bow firmly, but not tightly. There should be about a three finger space between your forearm and the string. Make sure the inside of your forearm is perpendicular to the ground (parallel to the string), so that your elbow does not lean in towards the string.

The image url you put (picasaweb.google.co.uk/le...6894272466) unfortunately was truncated, making it invalid. I would like to see your drawing.



Thomas

[ginni]

Hi Thomas!

Thanks for your reply!

I shot with an amgakji thumbring, made by my self, with 33''-34'' draw lenght, the bow is 15 degrees inclined, arrow touching the chin and the string in touch with my cheekbone, as I seen on the korean archers.

I usually do what you say, the diagonal grip and the forearm position (the direction of the elbow is parallel to the ground).

I am not sure about the distance between forearm and string.

I will show you some pics soon.

[ginni]

I put about 45 degrees between the bow hand direction and the bow axis.

[jiao]

hai ginni, your english not badly than me and you just do the things i want to do! the snow and big wind can not allow i shoot arrows!

in my guess:


torque: before you are aiming, the torque done, it will mean your forearm as a beeline(elbow joint and wrist), your hand has some angle away to the beeline turn more right.

twist: when your torque done(arrow not shoot) but your right hand keep the position, the forefinger will flank the bowstrings and has a few suffering, your hand draw the strings away to the axis of the bow(right side of axis), also when this step done the bow lamb twist.

relese: when the right hand release, the shake of the bow will take your left hand move more left , or your do it voluntary.

the arrow will not contact the bow , along the arrows beeline your are aiming flying, and so fast than your draw along same direction of the axis of the bow , the bow lamb rebound from transverse(x axis) and lengthways(y axis)

is my guess correct?

[jiao]

how does a pill not hit the axis of bow ? it is one elements but the torque (torsion)/ not torque (torsion) direction different?

[ginni]

I am not sure I understand right what you are saying.

At first I have try to twist the bow hand to the left in the shooting moment. I have find it some how hard to manage the twist. After that I try to put torque from the drawing start to the full draw. When I shot the bow hand go slightly to left and arrow is going straight and after that the bow hand rest in the position before drawing. Now I think this is not right, as Thomas said it must be a shorter distance between bow string and forearm in the relaxed position, before drawing, so a lower angle, not 45 degrees but about 10 or 15 degrees between bow axis and forearm direction (pushing or drawing axis).

So I will restart at the beginning until I will make it right.

[Thomas Duvernay]

Eugen,

If you can get someone to take some pictures of you shooting, I might be able to visualize what's happening better.


T

[ginni]

Thomas,

I have make today this picture.

I have make a short movie with my photo camera, not high quality.

You can see the movie here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEUTfsYdHBI

I have try to put less torque in the bow hand.
The arrow is 33,5 inch long from nock to base of the tip.
Usually I draw until the tip is on the thumb, but now I draw little shorter, after the arrow breakage.

Can help me to correct my technique?
And how about the lenght of draw?
I have seen korean archers using different draw length ( the position of the draw hand related to the body), between the ear line to the right shoulder, how each archer choose the proper draw lenght?

In my case I feel much comfortable with a little longer draw, 34,5-35", but the bow become very hard to handle over 33, and on the other side I cannot find over33,5" lenght.

[Thomas Duvernay]

Eugen,

I watched the video clip. Actually, your form looks pretty good. How did your arrows fly? The only thing might be a bit too much pronounced twist in the handle upon release, but not by much.

Would it be possible to see hand grips (both bow and draw hands) at full draw?


Thomas

[ginni]

Thomas,

Now I don't have a picture with hand in a closer view.
I will post it when a will have.

Today I have shot with my sugakji ring, because my thumb nail is beated and is blue now, so is very painfull nearly impossible to shot with amgakji.

With the sugakji ring I was able to shot at first time, after a while I turn to amgakji, this is a better way I think, the release seems to be softer and with much accuracy; the sugakji ring have a brutal and noisy release.

What ring use the koreans for strong bows?

My bow have 86 lbs@33".

And how with the draw lenght? For example I seen in pictures that you have a draw to ear line, and your son draw about two inches longer, closer to the shoulder.
The archer can choose the comfortable position or what?
And in other pics I seen archers with a high position, the arrow touch the cheek near to mouth.

And the last problem I hope. I use to check the equipment at every shooting round, especially the arrows.
Today was happening what you see in the picture. The nock was ok before that.

I fill some fear now, after the fourth dry shoot and I am starting to lose my confidence. I do not know anybody having my problems.
Almost erevy shooting day is something bad happening.
How much can a bow resist in this way?

[Bede]

I looked at your video too, but I cannot make comments about your shooting style in regard to Korean technique. After reading your description of the bow, I can make one observation. I noticed you dropped you bow arm very rapidly after the shot. Has this caused you any problems?

Are your nocks very tight? Strong bows often split tightly fitting nocks. This can happen after the first shot or after the fiftieth.

[Thomas Duvernay]

Eugen,

What Bede said seems quite likely, that you have nocks that are too tight. Also, as your bow has a relatively heavy draw weight, I would be curious to know what your arrows are spined for.

Traditionally, the sugakji was often used for heavy bows, although people use it today for most any draw weight. If the sugakji has a long knob (as do the type I send to people), it could create some string clearance issues; I recommend that people trim it and also curve it up a bit--that might relieve some of the problems you had with it.

Please, don't let your confidence drop! I wish you and I could meet and work out the problem with your shooting; however, it's a bit of a trek between Romania and Korea Let's just keep trying to rule things out so we can find what's going on.


Thomas

[ginni]

The arrows are not tight, but for safety I will fill a little the arrows nocks.

About the dropping hand, I see that movement in the video too.

Compared with the korean archers (the movies made by Thomas with amgakji/sugakji shooting archers), they don't drop the hand, so I am sure this is a mistake.

Have try to work at that, but there are a lot of things to keep in my mind and this issue usually rest at last.

Thanks!

[Orda Khan]

That looks painful. Have you considered changing the nocks? It's just an observation but I've always found the 'clear' plastic nocks more brittle than normal plastic nocks. Maybe horn insert nocks would be better still. Good luck.