Hwarang feedback, please...

Rob Taylor · Post by **Rob Taylor** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:46 pm

Hi all....been lurking and learning here for a while. Had a few Saluki bows in the past which I shot western style with decent results. The thumbring bug has got me right now and I am seriously looking for another horsebow. Wanna try something a little different and have tried learning all I could about the goods offered by the Hungarian bowyers. The Grozer TRH stuff (turk, especially) and a few Kassai models have struck my fancy. However, I am now leaning toward a Hwarang laminated repro as offered by Thomas Duvernay via his Korean connection. He has been very helpful with the few questions I have asked him, but now I want other Hwarang owners to weigh in with their comments, please.

If you own or have shot a Hwarang, please post and tell me about it. I'm very interested in:

chrono numbers

handshock

fit and finish (expecially compared to the Hungarians and American bows if you have expereience with them as well)

the overall shooting impression(s) of this little wonder-bow.

Thanks much.
-Rob

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:44 pm

I bought a bow from Thomas several years ago.

It is smooth drawing and shooting. I do not use the Korean hand position on the bow and cannot comment on whether it has hand shock with that technique. Using a Middle Eastern hand position with the thumb in line with the forearm, I have no hand shock.

The bow is accurate and fast shooting. Due to the setback handle, there is a short brace height. This means that the arrow is more likely to rub against the arrow pass area. I have replaced two leather arrow passes so far.

The narrow limbs make aiming easier. I have used the bow in standard FITA ranges from 30 to 90 metres. Up to 50 metres, I shoot instinctively. After that I aim along the edge of the bow.

Used with a Turkish draw length, the bow is perfectly capable of shooting fast arrows. At the longer Korean draw, it handles just as well. I was surprised at the good performance at the shorter draw.

You can use and arrow guide with this bow, but the brace height is too short for a siper.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:15 am

They are good bows. The finish is excellent and most people who see them for the first time can't believe they're not hornbows. Some people who have only seen pictures don't grasp how small they are.

I have used them a lot; but my personal taste is for something a bit bigger and heavier in the hand. When you get into higher draw weights, the lightness of the material makes for quite a lot of shock.

S

sean · Post by **sean** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:28 am

Hi Rob,
Like you I've just been listening.
You've drawn me out though.
I have a 45# Hwarang from Thomas. It's excellent value for money and Thomas' help is second to none. The bow is really good to shoot with appropriate arrows.
Using Thomas' thumb rings is not too difficult to get used to, ie hitting the mark after viewing Thomas' video and reading about technique here, is not hard. Going suddenly back to a mediterranean draw causes muscle memory confusion and results are wild.
Improperly fitted though the ring will abrade the skin. I've tried wrapping my thumb in tape first. I need someone to inspect me.
Bede's experience with arrow pass attrition is my own too. Leather's easy to replace though.
The most amazing thingthough was relative performance. In Hungary last year, I had a 39#TRH Turk and a 40#Lam.Assyrian off Csaba Grozer. Both are lovely bows and I reccomend them.
In the grounds of the hotel

, I used them consecutively with the Hwarang45 with the same Kelemen arrows. The Hwarang was certainly faster and the trajectory was flatter. But, the Hwarang was noticeably EASIER to pull and hold. Especially when compared to the Assyrian40. I remarked on this to Thomas, proposing the flat 'W' unstrung shape of the Hwarang as opposed to the 'C' of the Grozers. Thomas put it down to superior materials, the detailed nature of which are secret!

raygun · Post by **raygun** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:03 pm

Hi Rob, this thread couldn't come at a better time, as I am too, looking to purchase the Hwarang.

One thing that puzzles me is why is the bow fitted with a thick, form-like handle? Does it make holding the bow easier or it's purpose is to absorb hand shock? Can the handle be removed?

Also, I heard from an owner that the bow does not have any finish. Will the climate affect it's performance and durability in anyway?

cheers

Thomas Duvernay · Post by **Thomas Duvernay** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:27 pm

I've been following this thread (of course

) with interest. I generally wouldn't reply on it, but there is one thing I felt compelled to comment on. Sean mentioned,

Thomas put it down to superior materials, the detailed nature of which are secret!

Sean purchased a bow from me almost a year ago and asked me many questions regarding it, which I answered to the best of my knowledge. He wondered about how the the bow could draw so easily and yet be so powerful in comparison to other bows. I rechecked my e-mail to him and my exact reply was,

As for the ease of draw, it comes from a combination of the materials the Korean bowyer uses, plus the design.
Korean laminated bowyers tend to be fairly proprietary when it comes to the design and workings of their bows, so the answers I usually get [from them] are rather general.

I just wanted to clarify what I said, as I couldn't imagine I would ever have said "superior materials" (although the materials are high quality--some, like carbon lams, come from the same suppliers other bowyers use).

I appreciate your enthusiasm and support, Sean!

Thomas

Thomas Duvernay · Post by **Thomas Duvernay** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:38 pm

raygun wrote:Hi Rob, this thread couldn't come at a better time, as I am too, looking to purchase the Hwarang.

One thing that puzzles me is why is the bow fitted with a thick, form-like handle? Does it make holding the bow easier or it's purpose is to absorb hand shock? Can the handle be removed?

Also, I heard from an owner that the bow does not have any finish. Will the climate affect it's performance and durability in anyway?

cheers

While I'm at it, I'll try to answer these questions, too. The original horn bows of many years ago used to have almost no grip at all. Of course, at that time Koreans' hands tended to be quite a bit smaller than they are today. The purpose of the larger handle is to make the bows easier to hold [in relatively larger hands], as you mentioned. Yes, the handle can be removed (or I can request that the bowyer not put one on at all).

As for the finish, you are correct that it doesn't have one. The only covering for the bow is the birch bark on its back.

The only report I've ever had on the climate and performance came from a gentleman from Florida I sold a bow to several years ago; evidently, it dropped several pounds in the heat. He sent it back to me, asking for a heavier bow; when I weighed the bow upon its return, it was the same draw weight as when I sent it. I've sent bows to many hot climates around the world, but have never heard of that happening after that one time.

The durability is unaffected by climate, from all reports.

T

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:10 pm

Hi!

I have one hwarang bow, 85lbs@33", so a strong one.

I have four dry shots at full draw with my bow and is no damaged. Is very reliable and tolerant.

Rob Taylor · Post by **Rob Taylor** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:20 pm

Thanks guys....keep it coming...the comparisons to Grozer are particularly valuable to me. Oh, and Thomas.....don't worry, I'll have plenty more questions for you.

-Rob

sean · Post by **sean** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:27 pm

Hi Rob,
Thomas is quite right to clarify. Apologies Thomas.
Some more thoughts from my very limited experience.
Both the Grozers I mentioned, while seeming to demand greater effort for the draw, are nevertheess really sweet shooting. They are fast. They have very long draws, don't stack and are a class apart from the cheaper Samick SKB in this respect.The arrow pass on both and particularly on the TRHTurk, is really narrow and accuracy is good. They are very light bows, much more so than the fibre glass limbed bows in the Grozer range.
With the 3finger draw one is more accurate currently than with the Hwarang thumbring combination, but I feel sure that the latter will in time lead to better consistency and accuracy. The release feels and is sharper. A tutor would be very helpful to me, and perhaps for you too. The method requires commitment and ideally, advice from experts.

The Hwarang's string is comparatively thick and certain knocks grip it very tightly. Speed knocking by the Kassai method is therefore difficult. The same is true with Grozer's strings, though slightly less so.
I have two Kassai laminate Falcons39&43#, narrow strings, easier to speed knock and very much faster and alot lighter than his fibre glass bows. They seem to do best with the extended draw and longer arrows he sells. Their length makes them more stable compared to the shorter bows, and being easier to draw than shorter bows of similar strength, makes seeking and maintaing accuracy easier. With light arrows though, hand shock is noticeably greater than with the Grozers. I recommend these Falcons to you. Kassai has designed the handles to allow holding of extra shafts for his method. As a novice speed knocker I hold 4/5 easily and they don't disturb. This is more difficult with the Grozers I have mentioned, due to handle profile.
My last word to the Hwarang; its easier draw idiosyncracy makes it truly astonishing. Was I to seek a stronger bow it would be this, as it is kind to ones muscles but kills with its velocity, holds politely at full draw and is very beautiful.

Thomas Duvernay · Post by **Thomas Duvernay** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:27 pm

No apologies required, Sean.

Rob, I'll be glad to answer any questions (For any I might not have an immediate answer, I'll check into them).

T

Rob Taylor · Post by **Rob Taylor** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:45 am

Thanks Thomas....anyone else shooting this bow? Let me have it...the good, the bad, whatever.

BTW....are these bows FF compatible? If so, any danger in using a thinner (lower strand count) string in order to match nock size?

-Rob

Thomas Duvernay · Post by **Thomas Duvernay** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:34 am

Rob Taylor wrote:Thanks Thomas....anyone else shooting this bow? Let me have it...the good, the bad, whatever.

BTW....are these bows FF compatible? If so, any danger in using a thinner (lower strand count) string in order to match nock size?

-Rob

The bows come standard with FF string. In the past, I have had the bowyer make strings with fewer strands, to accommodate Western arrow nocks.

T

Rob Taylor · Post by **Rob Taylor** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:42 pm

Perfect....once again, thanks Thomas. I'm pretty sure I'm all in on this bow, but I always like to hear about others' experiences.
-Rob

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:44 pm

I think the comments about string size are very important for accurate shooting. Strings that are too big for the nock have two problems. They can eventually split the nock and they are not good at releasing the arrow. The latter problem affects the flight and the perceived degree of archer's paradox.

I have seen several archers with badly flying arrows due almost entirely due to nock fit. Thick strings work well with properly fitting nocks. If a string is a little thin for your nocks you can compensate with a smoother release, but nothing in your technique will correct for an overly tightly fitting nock.