shooting technique

[jack farrell]

Ginni; Are those ash arrows? The grain on the broken arrow is short. It crosses diagonally at the break.

Though the others are not saying so, what you are doing is very dangerous. One should learn to shoot on a light bow and work up to a strong bow. I can see how easily you draw this bow but you are hurting yourself.

These arrows are inferior for this bow. The shafts are not good enough nor are the nocks. Self nocks with good thread lashings which are lacquered, glued or painted would be also be necessary. you also need a good lash on the leading end of the fletch, no tape. But clearly the short grain cannot take the stress. The arrow shaft broke first and opened and broke the nock.

Bede can research Arab archery or etc for the Rx for your sore thumb. Now is the time for the strong bow proponents to come to your aid before you need a surgeon to remove an arrow from your hand. I have met two people who have had broken arrows removed by surgeons.

Be kind to yourself. Take a break and reasses what you are doing. -j-

[ginni]

Jack,

The arrows are made from spruce, 10 mm diameter with three layers of nitrolac.

Do you believe that spruce is not good for arrow shafts?

[jack farrell]

Ginni; Spruce makes good arrows but you need special, perfect arrows for a strong bow like yours. The maker of the bow would probably recommend special bamboo arrows.

Look at the grain on the broken arrow. It is short grain. -j-

[Adam Karpowicz]

It seems to me the arrows do not have enough spine for 86lb@33". I would think you need arrows spined #100+. Such arrows are probably best made of bamboo.

I am no expert on Korean technique, but the blue thumb means it is hit badly by the string on release. The fit of your ring is probably not good - I would try to make sure the ring is not too loose on your thumb. It also seems your index finger is curved too much and/or too tensed, so the thumb is held by it too long, causing the pinch. I also find too much flex in the thumb is not a good idea for heavier bows, because it tends to put too much pressure on the tip of thumb during release.

Adam

[ginni]

Adam,

I agree with you about the flex of the thumb. I have observed that with too much flex, around 90 degrees, the pressure will be concentrated to the joint between the first and second phalanges of the thumb with a lot a pain, so that way cannot be suitable for my bow. I cannot draw at full the bow in this manner.
With an more open thumb and with the index anchor on the base of the thumb tip, I find is hard to manage the pressure to the arrow, so the arrow will stay bended; in order to put less pressure on the arrow, in a controllable way, it must rotate a little the index plane, but it will intersect the string plane, so the string can hit the index tip and this hurt like hell.

The solution seem to be an anchor with the index on the thumb nail, the release is very clean and the pressure on the arrow is controlable. But after three consecutive days of shooting- I think I have shot 700-800 arrows- the thumb nail have a blue-mauve painful spot in the middle and now I cannot shot with the lipped ring.

The ring I use is made from copper plate, and the hole is adjustable, so I can make it tight or loose.

How archers shot with really heavy flight bows?


Jack,

The arrow is not splinted along the wood grain; the wood is good, stiff and with long dense grain. The spine was 105 lbs.

Course, the bamboo arrows are the best, but tell me where can I buy pseudosasa shafts?
This is a problem for me, I cannot find anywhere.

Maybe you can sell some from your garden?

[Adam Karpowicz]

Yes, the index finger over the nail is the way to go. I actually cover only the tip half of the thumb nail with my index finger. This can vary depending how long are the fingers though.

It would best now to wait for the thumb to heal. Then shoot again as you did, but make sure last three fingers are very tightly curled and pressed hard into you palm and the thumb is also pressed hard into the middle finger. This will partly release the tension in your index finger. When you lock, make sure the index finger is not tensed and consciously try to maintain the pressure of other fingers and thumb as before. The index finger should release first - this will let the thumb fly out of the way quickly, so it will not be injured.

You can also slightly twist your hand couterclockwise on release, so the string will clear the index finger better.

I am not sure what you mean by adjusting the hole in the ring. The hole should be so shaped that the ring sits tight against the sides of the thumb joint, but can be loose and pivot forward and backward (this is why the hole can have an oval shape).

Good luck with your heavy bows, I am glad someone tries.

Adam

[ginni]

Twisting the draw hand ccw is a good solution to keep save the index. But this way the string will be not in a straight line.

Jiao has posted a question about this problem and Thomas said that is not the right way, or that is what I have understand.
Still, in the pics some korean archers using amgakji rings looks twisting a little the draw hand to left - ccw, their strings is not a straight line.

Two questions:
1. When the string is released, it will put a clockwise rotation to the arrow because some energy is stored by twisting the draw hand?
2. Can this twist put more stress or pressure to the arrow nock and that can cause my accident? Course, together with others bad circumstances, like the tight nocking.
I have make this movement instinctively to protect my left index.

[Adam Karpowicz]

It seems to be a serious misunderstanding here. The twisting motion I was talking about is a slight counterclockwise twist, done (by the wrist) at the moment of release. Otherwise there is no torque on the string at all and the draw is straight as usual, with no pressure on the string from the index finger. This twist has no effect whatsoever on the energy of arrow. All that happens is that the tip of the index finger moves counterclockwise to the right, while it lifts off the thumb, thus clearing the way for the string. This is an alternative technique, but not at all essential for handling heavy bows. If you are left handed, reverse the direction of twist etc.

I understood your problem as bruising of the thumb. The bruising is caused by the index finger holding the thumb (and in effect the string)too long which does not allow the thumb to move away. The thumb is momentarily squeezed between the index finger and the string. The great pressure on the thumb tip causes the injury. The index finger does that, because it is forced to support the full pressure of thumb/string. Essentially this way you draw not with your thumb, but with your index finger, while the thumb sits there doing nothing. The problems may not be noticeable with light weight bows, but with heavy bows it may not work well. The solution is to make the other fingers and the thumb work harder, by exerting pressure on each other as I described in the previous post. Then the tension on the index finger is partly released, so it can clear the way for the thumb better.

I believe you can still learn to shoot correctly, but perhaps as others suggested, a light weight bow ma be a better solution for now.

Adam

[jiao]

i borrow my friend's 45#skb, has no other handle add to the bow , difficulty twist the bow , but i find if your hand hold handle more right,use the middle part of your hand on index finger and thumb hold the handle , it will so easy twist, before first step , we are wrong, i am not sure you can use a 83#bow do it

after i twist the bow , bow lamb also twist , and the bow strings away form the middle line of the bow ,waiting i has more time do more test and i will post more, some trouble of language real bug one

[jiao]

[Thomas Duvernay]

Many Korean archers will, like Adam said, give a slight CCW twist to the wrist at full draw, at time of release.


T

[ginni]

Ok!

I think the problem is solved (at least the theoretycal part).
After my nail will grow and the thumb will heal I will put all advices in practice.
Now I use a sugakji thumb ring.

It is a physics principle, not sure I can translate right:

Quantitative accumulations makes qualitative jumps.

So practice is always the answer. Unfortunately bad practice make blue nail, not better shots.

Thanks you all for helping me!

[jiao]

Quantitative accumulations makes qualitative jumps

materialism?

[jiao]

today , me also split 2 arrows form nock i useing a 45#skb only

same result to this picture

[jiao]

the distance of the bowstring between the handle so short, put an arrow to bowstirng, look what angle the arrows and the handle,if the nock too tight hold the bowstring , it is a split arrow bow

right?