arrows spine

amatuccio · Post by **amatuccio** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:53 pm

Wen I'm a shooting with my mongolian horn bow (with tumbring) my arrows plant in the target no straight. I. e. even if shoot is right and the arrow hit the mark, the arrow stop in the target with nock pointing towards left and sfhaft toward right.
I had tryed many shafts spine of cedar arrows: 40-45; 45-50; 50-55
(the weight of bow is about 55 # at 32"). The more light (40-45) working better, but also they have this problem; more stiffer is the shaft, more the phenomen is visible.
Do you thing that this is simply a probelm of spine, or maybe
it can be a problem of my shooting technique?

Cesar K Ramos · Post by **Cesar K Ramos** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:38 pm

assuming you're left handed

the back end of your arrow is hitting the bow;
move the bow out of the way. either by twisting the bow out of the way (kyudo style) or do like a modern back tension release pushing your bow toward the target until the thumb releases. If you pushed all the way and no release you're holding the string too tight.

Also loosen your grip, hold the bow, don't squeeze the grip, use masking tape as grip tape.

"thumb release" release should be similar to a modern double caliper release.

there shouldn't be a 'archer's paradox' so spine shouldn't matter.

amatuccio · Post by **amatuccio** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:00 pm

Thanks you Cesar.
Maybe you are right about the fact that arrow back end hit the grip. But I don't understand what you mean when you say "use masking tape as grip tape". Do you mean that I had to wrap the grip with tape ? And why this should prevent me to "squeeze" it ?

Still, I must say that I've shoot with a Grozer Magyar bow (with thumbring release) for many time and I haven't never such problem.
So, doe's this problem maybe dues to the larger (wider) grip of my Mongolian bow ?

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:41 pm

Do you hold the bow with your left hand?

amatuccio · Post by **amatuccio** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:52 pm

yes I hold bow with left hand

bustedarrow · Post by **bustedarrow** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:18 am

On this topic, Ihave been shooting with my thumbring off the the left hand side off the bow ( I am a right hand shooter), As if shooting with fingers. Well Ihave been having great success with some arrows from another bow. Becouse spine is not suppose to matter. The arrows where 50# - 54# spine. The bow I am shooting is a 65# recuver. So I made somemore arrows up wiht that spine weight , do to having so many in that weight. In preparation of a shoot I am going to. I mixed the arrows together in the same quiver and noticed that my arrows where flying consistanly to the left. I though that it was my snap release since I have not shoot in awhile. But that seem to be OK, So I started moving my bow out of the way to see if this became a problem, and that seem to worsen it. Then I noticed that I was shooting the 75# - 79# spine arrows. So I pulled out the low weight spined arrows and the problem cleared , And I startedd shooting around 70 meters to see and my arrow where on target. Any thoughs on this?
In the photo it is an example of how I am shooting the thumbring.

TradArcher · Post by **TradArcher** » Thu May 10, 2007 9:51 am

You can also place piece of carbon paper on the grip where the arrows goes and look for marks on the arrow then you will see if it hits the grip or not.
Janek

amatuccio · Post by **amatuccio** » Thu May 10, 2007 2:21 pm

Janek
I thing that wen arrow pass along the grip always touch it; so always carbon paper will let sign on arrow, even if all it's right in spine and
in shooting.

TradArcher · Post by **TradArcher** » Thu May 10, 2007 4:02 pm

Amatuccio
Here in Poland for shooting with thumbring we use 15-20# stiffer arrows. For ex for bow 45# we use cedar 60-65# 32''. Just try one.

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:33 pm

I use a 45lb bow with 75-80 spine arrows (near indestructable) and they fly fine when you get your follow through right. I have also tried 40-45 spine arrows. They fly only a little more erratically. Something I have noticed though, is that I can almost place my arrows where I like, but at short distances, they always land in with the arrow pointing to the left, regardless of spine.
I doubt there is anything wrong with the arrows, you could try videoing yourself and watch to see if you are doing anything obviously wrong.

Mike

amatuccio · Post by **amatuccio** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:10 am

Dear MIke,

I don't think my problem it's due to fault in shooting technique. As I have already say, when I shoot with Groze's Magiar, this phenomen doesn't occurs. Moreover, I have just one mongolian traditional arrow, and it is the only that fly stright. It have a tick but flexible shaft (maybe birch), heavy horn arrowhead and big feather. All others cedar shafts (of different spine) three fleched with 5" fleches, presents the same problem (i.e. flight no stright and plant in the target with knock to right).
Maybe the big flecht of mongolian arrow stabilize more the arrow fly, but
they make a frou-frou effect that on long distances it's no good.

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:45 am

Amatuccio,
Does this problem occur at all distances or just at short distance? What is the difference in width at the arrow pass above the grip of the Mongol and Magyar? Are both bows the same weight?
My bow is a Hun, I do not use the thumb draw as I am not convinced the technique was used by them, however I have tried it. Just as Mike has posted, I found that at short distance my arrows hit the target at an angle with the nocks to the right. Arrows of heavier spine made no difference and I should add that my Hun has a narrow grip and that my arrows fly straight and true with my usual style.
Have you tried points of different weights? You could try lighter ones to see if this will help.

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:50 pm

Amatuccio,
Can you compare the different arrows, it could be that a little thing like feather size or point weight (as Orda said) makes all the difference.

If you are looking for a quick solution, why not make up another Mongolian style arrow and see if when you reduce the feather size (to remove frou frou effect) it still flys straight. Hopefully it will. If it suddenly aquires the phenomenon you have found the problem.

I'd experiment with different combinations of point shaft and feather and see which gets the results

Good luck

Mike

amatuccio · Post by **amatuccio** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:40 am

In effect my Mongolian have the grip more tick than Grozer's Magiar, maybe this can be the difference that affects arrows flying.
I'have worked with arrowheads weight, trying different weights, but
doesn't seems to be success.
The only thing that still I haven't tryied it's modifying flechts size: I will
do it.

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:59 pm

Just a thought
Is there a large difference in draw weight of the bows? If the mongolian bow is noticably heavier, and you can't pull if easily, then it could be possible that faults are emerging in your technique that wouldn't be there on a lighter bow. I know I shoot worse on a bow in the 60-65Lb league.

Mike