Hunnic Quiver

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:42 pm

Michal,
I think that the Xiongnu who didn't adopt archer's rings were satisfied with their own archery techniques. After all, they were very successful in their interactions with the two Han empires and their leaders intermarried with the Han royal family. Perhaps some of the Southern Xiongnu did adopt thumb rings, but we need evidence.

There are several books in English about the Xinjiang excavations as well as extensive coverage in Chinese in the archaelogical journal, Wenwu.

In English, there is Mallory and Mair, The Tarim Mummies, 2000, Thames and Hudson. This has an extensive bibliography of the other publications.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:26 am

The ONLY bronze thumbring that I have seen in China looks very similar to the bronze goods made in the Han Dynasty as gifts/trade items with the Xiongnu.

On the absence of thumbrings from burials, for context you need to be aware that no operational thumbrings were included in burials from the early Han period onward. The disappearance of thumbrings from Chinese burials coincides roughly with the spread of popularity of the yin-yang/five elements/empress mother of the West cult. Thumbrings were therefore probably not a significant symbol in that cult. In contrast, they did play a role in burial cults throughout the Eastern Zhou period.

Incidentally, I believe in general that what is included in graves bares little relation with what people use and do in their lifetime. Burial goods are a distorting mirror.

That is despite the fact that there is reference to the use of thumbrings in the later literature.

The Xiongnu were a large political (not racial) confederation. I would expect a wide variety of shooting techniques among them including, though not necessarily predoiminantly, a thumb draw.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:58 am

Stephen,
I think your analysis is correct. The absence of something from the archaeological record does not prove it did not exist in the culture. The Xiongnu appear to have included bows and quivers in their burials so there might be a chance of surviving rings if they were high status objects. Because they were a federation, what happened in one area might not have happened elsewhere.

I do not know what the changes were in Xiongnu burials over the four centuries of the state they founded.

Michal · Post by **Michal** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:14 am

Bede, thanks for recomendation of literature.
M.

TZH · Post by **TZH** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:24 am

One is an alanian warrior with his "college" wife:-), the other is probably a hun with the large reflexbow.

TZH · Post by **TZH** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:24 am

oops. And the hun:-) :

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:33 pm

Thanks TZH, much appreciated.

TZH · Post by **TZH** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:56 pm

Oh, please...

Michal · Post by **Michal** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:55 pm

I found interesting abstract from mitochondrial DNA study, which suggests that Niya people where geneticaly Scythians settled in Xinjiang with possible Iranian origin.

http://211.68.23.76/webmedia/jingpin/do ... ngif/2.pdf

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:03 pm

Michal; Greetings and thanks for that reference. In her book Warrior Women. Davis-Kimball marches across eastern Russia, Central Asia and Xinjaing digging graves and analysing museum artifacts. She repeatedly mentions remains of Scythian, Saka, Sarmatian etc but only rarely mentions Hunns (Xiongnu. Hsiung-nu etc etc) the first group being nominal Persian people. It makes me wonder if after the domestication of the horse, 3rd millinea BC, if it then became viable to take to the nomadic life in search of pasturage and plunder of the Silk Road.

Good costuming information can be found in Heirs to the Silk Road, Uzbekistan which was the first silk area outside of China. Patterns are shown for many pieces. These are mostly late but find their predecessors in antiquity.

For instance a fine pair of leather pants. When laid flat the legs spread wide, perfect for horse riding.

The Orlat belt plaques are well illustrated in that book, encyclopedic images of Sakian nomad art. -j-

Michal · Post by **Michal** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:45 am

Thanks Jack for the tips to literature, but Heirs....., well its quiet luxury book

If somebody is interesting i found:
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/turkicsite.htm
http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/VIII-1-B ... 65.html.ja
http://www.peterchai.net/sitefiles/thes ... nuarts.pdf

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:19 pm

Michal, Yes, price matters. But then there is always the library, and almost all libraries have inter-library loan for special books. Just photocopy what you need. -j-

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:31 pm

Remember how long ago we began with a discussion of the Hunnic quiver? Well it has taken me this long to be able to post this picture of Sakian Rockart from the area of Samarkand, epicenter of the Silk Road. These presumably date from the last centuries BC to the first centuries AD. They demonstrate that Sakians on foot wore a single quiver,in back probably belt mounted, similar to the double quiver bowcases found in Xinjaing of similar age. The doubles are a rawhide cylinder with or without a lid. -j-