new pool ball ring

[ginni]

Jason,

I have made some rings, from pool ball, cooper and thick leather and this last one work best by far.

It was very thin, with a groove near to the hole and the part that cover the thumb pad is short, covering 2/3 from the pad.
So the point of the thumb can be pushed into the middle finger with much pressure and easy to manage.

I shot with this thumbring series at 18 arrows few hours and I have not any pain or pinch.

The groove is very useful, the previous ring have pinch my thumb on the tendon from interior part of the second phalanx.

The ring is very thin, but this has a price, now is broken... I will make another from horn soon, hope to succeed to make a similar one.

[Jason DuLac]

Ginni,

Thanks for the information on the lip. I think I'll try making one like that myself. A friend of mine gave me a block of 'high strength' plastic that has some use in machining metal. I also have some clear acrylic like material, but don't know if it will be strong enough. Probably use the 'high strength stuff'.

I've never considered using my middle finger to prevent the thumb angle from being too acute. Bede had suggested that maybe I was curling my thumb around the string too much and that was causing the excessive string contact between my second phalax and the string. I'll try keeping my thumb in place with contact between the end of the thumb and side of the middle finger.

Thanks for the great ideas! What a great website!

Jason

[Bede]

Jason,
There should be some tension in the wrist, but not enough to turn it. The degree of turning depends on the thumb position on the middle finger.

With a strongly flexed thumb, where the tip of the thumb presses against the side of the middle section of the middle finger, the hand is only turned enough to lightly touch the nock of the arrow with the side of the index finger while keeping the distal section of the thumb perpendicular to the plane of the string.

Using a ring with a long tip where the ring face presses against the side of the middle section of the middle finger during the draw, the wrist is turned more to turn the surface of the ring to the same angle to the plane of the string.

The basic idea is to direct the force of the string through the lip of the ring onto pad of the distal section of the thumb. Grooves on old rings were designed to accurately locate the string on the surface of the ring, not to act as notches to hold the ring in place. Sometimes in photographs they look quite deep, but usually they are shallow when you handle them. Their purpose meant they were not always needed. With training and practice, most archers can put the string where they need to on the lip of the ring. As a result, few rings had these grooves.

[ginni]

Here some korean rings with groove

[ginni]

I cannot find an old post with a translation from saracen archery, I dont remember who was the owner.
I atach the files here, hope I will not offend nobody.

After I had some troubles with my shooting style, I found it very helpful.

But the bigest help has come from this forum, the guys here are wise and very helping, allways ready to get a good advice.

Thank you all again!

[Jason DuLac]

Ginni,

THANKS for posting those two articles! I've downloaded them and will make hard copies to read over tomorrow mornings coffee. I'm looking forward to this greatly! I wish I had known about this website two years ago, as I'd be twice the archer I am today!

I will make one of those Korean rings with the 'lip' that helps separate the string from the thumb. I'll use your photos as models.


Bede,

THANKS for your excellent advice about wrist tension too! I think the 'grooves' that ginni and I are talking about are actually the 'lip' that partically encircles the thumb, with the opening where the string is closest to the thumb (see the pics of Ginni's Korean rings). I think the 'groove' you mentioned is a shallow indent that the string can nestle in, as you mentioned, simply to help with string location. Bit of a language faux pas.

THANKS again guys!

J.

[Bede]

Jason,
I was aware of both the types you mention and two others. There are Shang and Spring and Autumn period rings with deep grooves to hold the string and there are metal rings like the Fustat ring with an indentation at the base of the lip and a tear-drop shaped bump on the surface of the lip. Both of these types use the groove as a single point of location for the string. It cannot sit anywhere else.

The Korean rings with the indentation and the cut-away at the base of the ring are similar to rings described in Ming Dynasty works. There, rings with two little legs are described. These face forward at the base of the lip and prevent the string from sliding back to the thumb itself.

When designs last as long as these have, there often are new ways to make use of the features of the equipment. Sometimes you solve one problem and gain a whole new advantage you were not anticipating.

[Jason DuLac]

'When designs last as long as these have, there often are new ways to make use of the features of the equipment. Sometimes you solve one problem and gain a whole new advantage you were not anticipating. '

Very true! I may have a hypothesis, but until I do the experiment (make one of these rings and shoot it), I'll never really know the results!

Thanks again!

J.

[Matt Prickett]

Jason

I made a couple of this type of rings from poolballs. The shield is slightly different more tear dropped, But so far non have broke. I am only sasying this becouse that high density plastic (901) I sent you is very difficult to work with hand tools.

Matt

[Adam Karpowicz]

Bede offers very good advice. Except for one sentence: "direct the force of the string through the lip of the ring onto pad of the distal section of the thumb". I do not agree with that. If the pressure is only on the pad of thumb, the ring is too loose. The pressure should be on the knuckle too.

I also find with my short and inflexible thumb, I can not flex it too much while pressing into the middle finger. This turned out to be an advantage, because then my release becomes faster and I have no trouble to hold the string on the edge of ring. I now think the thumb should not be flexed too much for that reason, and the index finger should cver only the tip of thumb, with most of the thumb nail visible.

Every hand is a little different, so experimentation is in order.

Adam

[Bede]

Adam.
I have changed my opinion of thumb ring use after three years of experimenting with thin metal rings. The large number of late cast metal thumb rings has always been a puzzle. There were several different sorts which had different techniques (a supposition).

Since they have little in the way of locating the string, I wondered how they were meant to used. Like many other thumb ring users, I started to practise by hooking the string with the inner edge of the ring. This tends to put the pressure through the back and sides of the ring. This is easy to do if you have a ring slightly too long for your thumb. It was easy and natural, but it made most of the descriptions of shooting hard to understand.

I looked at the shapes of horn and ivory rings and decided that there was a component in their designs to enable the string to be located somewhat away from the base of the lip. Once you start thinking that way, your view of the dynamics of how the ring works changes. The Middle Eastern rings are normally thicker at the base of the lip. I saw an advantage in this when the string was pushing against the lip, but not when it was pulling on it. Korean rings by contrast are generally thinner at the base of the lip and thicker towards the tip.

However, to echo something Stephen often writes, there is no perfect and singular technique. Everyone is built slightly differently and all the old writers were aware of the individual body shapes of archers.

[Thomas Duvernay]

Here some korean rings with groove

The one on the left is date wood; the middle is horn; the one on the right is from a pool ball. I like using the date ring, but it is a bit bulky.


T

[Adam Karpowicz]

Yes, a ring thick at the base of lip with a short, sloping lip. This is what I like the most. Then the string sits on the "ledge" or on the "extended" or "swollen" edge of ring. I was worried you advise the string to sit on the lip itself which can cause all kinds of trouble. Also the mechanics of a loose ring makes it cut into the thumb knuckles at the back side of thumb. In any case the ring must be tight around the thumb joint, regardless of the hole type - round or oval.

Adam

[Jason DuLac]

I wish we could draw on this the internet or there was a standardized way of identifying thumbring parts as I often feel a bit confused about what part of the ring people are talking about. Suppose I could always post a picture...

Adam/Bede,

When you refer to the 'lip' are you talking about the ring that goes around the second phalange, with the opening at the meeting point between the string and thumb? or are you refering to the tear drop shaped 'sheild' that goes over the thumb pad.

I tend to think of the large teardrop shaped section that the thum pad rests in as the 'shield' and the 'lip' as going around the 2nd phalange with an opening at the contact point with the string. Not all rings have a 'lip' as I understand the term.

Am I on the same page as you guys/ or am I misunderstanding the thumbring anatomy?



Matt,

I'll try attacking that block of plastic you gave me with my Dremmel tool and see if I can get through that. Later though. Right now I'm building a bow!

J.

[Tamr The Nomad]

I'm sorry I didn't tell you abt this forum. Looks like you found the good guys to talk to. Maybe we can collaborate on some of these techniques tomorrow at your place. I have the same trouble with picking up stuff from the internet.

Hi Bede, Hi Adam.