bad loose

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:12 pm

Jason,

Now I don't have time for shooting, hope in the weekend I will have some time.
Last shooting was a disaster, the arrows was slaping every shoot, I was not able to hit the 60 cm target eve at 20 meters...
The best shots I had was at 50-60 meters, I finaly was able to put my arrows in the target, but I just canot understand why I shot beter from 60 meters than 20. I wonder if the korean technique work somehow better if the arrow have a high angle.

I broke three arrows and now i have only three healty arrows, so the next session will be a very short one... But hope I will have enough time to experiment your advices.

Matt,

I have tried few shots with the arrow on the left side, like using the mediteranean technique and finnaly I lost one arrow into a corn field. I have shot few meters above the target. I just canot shoot like that using my eyes open, the fear is stronger than me...

Jason DuLac · Post by **Jason DuLac** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:21 am

Eugen,

I know how you feel about the lack to free time! Too much to do, NEVER enough time!

Maybe when shooting at longer distances, the arrow has more time to straighten out after the shaft hits the side of the bow? Maybe at short distances the arrow is still flying from side to side too much?

Have you tried raising your string brace height, 1-4cm? raising my brace height also helped reduce bow/arrow contact.

I can't remember, but has Tom D. made any suggestions to you yet? He'd really be the one to ask.

Also; how can you loose a telephone pole in a corn field, let alone 3 telephone poles?!?!?!?

I figure you must be shooting telephone pole for a 130# spine arrow!!

I'm sorry. I'm full of BAD jokes and they occasionally ooze out of me like mud.

Let us know how shooting is for you this weekend.

J.

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:42 am

Ginni,
In the photographs you posted, I notice the elbow of your drawing arm is quite low, below the level of the arrow. I would suggest adjustment in your form to achieve a nice straight line, maybe have someone to watch you shoot who can let you know if you drop your elbow.

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:30 pm

Eugen,

Have you got a copy of 'Saracen Archery' to hand? You might find the chapter 'On faults and injuries to which archers are exposed' useful. In the comments section at the end of the chapter it discusses sound emitted by equipment. It attributes the a sound made to 'when the shaftment strikes the arrow-pass as it leaves the bow'. It then goes on to say that this is caused by 'twisting the grip on loosing, a bad grasp, pinching the nock (I think that means putting pressure on the nock), too big a loop (string loop?) or a bad arrow that is defective either becuase it is too thin or too weak a wood or too roughly cut in the making'.

Do you lean forward slightly whilst shooting? I find that if I lean foward and do not have a solid stance my bow arm will fly off on loose.

As a last resort you could find a lighter bow which would be easier to experiment with to discover what makes the arrow slap.

Regards

Mike

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:33 pm

Orda,

You are right, my right elbow is too low and I found is hard to correct my position.
If I shoot at distance and I keep the elbow position, it make a straight line with the bow hand and shoulders, but if I aim lower, at close range, is hard to elevate my elbow, so I lean the body a little forward, but the elbow still rest in a low position. I try to remember to elevate when I shot, but not work every time, sometime I forget.

Mike,

I try to keep the bow and the bow hand in position, standing, while the arrow leave the string and I lean it forward after that with a slow motion.
I try to do that but I don't succeed every time and when I succeed usually I have a good shoot.

I dont have a lighter korean bow, I have few hungarian bows but shhoting with these bows is very much different and I dont like them.

There are two different problems with my arrows. Sometime the arrow is going well, but still touching the grip, making a little noise but without shock and without fishtailing. Sometime the arrow really hit the grip and is going elsewhere.
I am not concerning about the first, even is not a real clean shoot, but the second problem really put me in trouble.

I shot today two hours and I cannot hit the 60cm target even at 20 meters. Something wrong is going on, I am shooting more and more badly. Slap after slap, all I do was wrong. Maybe is time to get a breake and make someting else for a while.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:26 pm

Ginni,
Taking a break might help. Sometimes you concentrate so hard on a problem that you produce new ones without being aware of it.

The heavier the bow you use, the more important is the way you hold it and how you draw the arrow. Though you are obviously a strong man, perhaps the bow is a little strong for you at the moment. You can practise for a while without a target so that you have no distractions from your draw and release. Over a few weeks, you should find that the arrow slapping reduces as you perfect your technique. It is hard to do this by yourself without someone to watch your form and help you. Don't get discouraged.

Though the bow is heavy, it might be good to shoot a few shots with a bare thumb and more with a leather thumb tab as see whether the slapping as bad. Don't shoot until your thumb gets sore because then you end up with other problems.

You are obviously closely watching the arrow in flight and keeping track of what you are doing. I am sure you will find a way around the problem. Good luck.

Jason DuLac · Post by **Jason DuLac** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:12 am

Orda,

I've got a bad shoulder and found that my string arm elbow was dropping below level with the arrow/bow arm line too. I've been working on this and have had a bit of success with cleaner arrow flights. When I pull with my arm too much (and not my back) my elbow tends to drop.

Also Bede's advise about taking a break can be good too. I depends on if you are feeling really frustrated or are having fun problem solving.

J.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:43 am

Koreans nock the arrow about 1/2 inch above 90 degrees. Can anyone tell me why this is? -j-

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:23 am

I think the main thing to remember here is that imperfections in form creep up on all of us. I've been finding, over the last six months or so, an anchoring problem (note..I do not thumb draw) My anchor was always tucking my bent thumb into the curve of my jaw, just below the ear lobe. For some reason, I seem to be drawing more slowly than before and to a point (though no fixed reference) that just feels right for the release. I am aware that my draw is now not consistent yet trying to correct it is very difficult as the 'habit' does not want to go away. Oddly enough, my bad habit is giving better results than when I correct it

The only thing I can attribute this bad form to is possibly spending more time shooting 18m indoors this year, due to the awful weather we had in early Summer.
I think Bede's advice about removing the target is a good first step. Concentrate on the draw for a while, straight lines and especially, feel the work in your back muscles and when you eventually begin aiming again always be aware of this 'feel'. I would not take a break myself, you are obviously frustrated at this point and it is my belief that you should always take down your bow on a positive note. Rather than give in to frustration, remain calm, analise adjustments and enjoy finding the solution.

ginni · Post by **ginni** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:17 pm

Thank you guys!

Is very good to have somebody to help when I am in trouble.

Jason DuLac · Post by **Jason DuLac** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:09 pm

Eugen,

It's a pleasure!

When other archers bring up their problems and I think about them, it often helps me work out problems I'm having with my own shooting.

Also, ultimately our lives and careers (most of us) are not dependent on how well we shoot, so thinking about shooting problems is a nice distraction from all the other more 'serious' problems I face every day.

It'll feel good when you start to get it figured out and I'm sure you will.

J.

jiao · Post by **jiao** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:57 pm

Koreans nock the arrow about 1/2 inch above 90 degrees. Can anyone tell me why this is?

is the koreans nock avoid the bow split nock? i has split nock trouble when i use skb. can you show the korean nock?

thanks

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:42 pm

Jiao,
The two commonest causes of split nocks are too tight a fit on the string (the nock is too small) and sideways pressure on the nock by the index finger in a thumb draw (caused by rotating the drawing hand towards the arrow).

Korean arrows have large nocks and large diameter strings to fit them. If you use ordinary sized nocks, they fit very tightly and drag on the string when you release. If there is even a small weakness in the nock, it may crack or split.

Is this like the problem you are writing about?

jiao · Post by **jiao** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:55 am

Is this like the problem you are writing about?

thanks bede, it is a so perfect reply

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:06 pm

Nocking high has something to do with aiming or flight dynamics. Does anyone nock high? Can you compare to nocking at 90 degrees? -j-