Logwood (Caesalpina echinata) needed

Metin Ates · Post by **Metin Ates** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:39 pm

I need "Logwood" to make original Turkish nock called "Bakkam Gez".

I knew that it grows in Middle America, Mexica, India and Jamaica but I didn't find any supplier of this. I found only in dust form on E-Bay for painting stuff.

I need small pieces, see the figure.

(Logwood: "Farbholz" in German, "Bois de Compeche" in French)

Jos?Dom · Post by **Jos?Dom** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:49 am

Looks like that kind of wood is hard to obtain. Also, making these nocks looks very complex. Do you have experience making them?

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:29 pm

Bakkam is generally called brazil wood in English. It is used for making inlays in furniture as well as a red dye. You might find the Wikipedia entry helpful (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilwood).

I have recently made some gez nocks from it. It is extremely hard and polishes well. The sawdust can be collected to make a dye. In Australia it is commercially available in small quantities.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:18 pm

sorry maybe stupid question, but what a hell doing this exotic wood in turkey in 16 -17 cen. ? Turkish bow masters dont use his own woods ?

Jos?Dom · Post by **Jos?Dom** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:05 pm

I agree, I don't think they imported an exotic wood just for this purpose. I think horn would be a good material.

Anybody knows if arrows/shafts with this type of nocks are offered commercially?

Ashbow · Post by **Ashbow** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:33 pm

Brazilwood was used by the bowyers and fletchers of old as we can read of it in several sources; In 16 Cent. Roger Ascham in his ?Toxophilus? mentions the brazil(wood), In Klopsteg?s ?Turkish Archery? we can read of nocks made of separate pieces of Brazilwood (or horn) in a fashion Metis Ates has described.
The term Brazilwood may be a bit confusing in that case because it?s actually been referred to several species of wood. The wood used then must had been an Asian species which was later replaced in it?s applications by easier to get South and Central America species.
Now the term is also reffered to Pernambuco (Caesalpinia echinata) tree. I believe the Brazilwood of old must be the Caesalpinia sappan, the native Asian species of Caesalpinia genus. The wood of that tree was known in Europe in Middle Ages as a source of red dyes.

You can read in here http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ecoph4.htm that the name Brazil was first used for the above Asian tree and later for the land discovered by the Portugese (because of the similar-like trees growing there). It would be nice if someone could confirm this theory on the etymology of the word Brasil, maybe some of you know some good sources?

The term logwood, as I found, refers to the species Haematoxylum campechianum.

Maybe we should find out if there is any source of 'Asian Brazilwood', any one knows?

robno · Post by **robno** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:40 pm

To fill in from what Ashbow already said:
Sappanwood is native to these countries:
China, India, Laos, Malaysia, Burma, Philippines, Vietnam

According to a Wikipedia-article it was traded along the Silk Road, but there were no references.

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:06 am

Metin Ates,

If you do not mind not having exactly that species, I have some small pieces of Chinese 'iron wood' that are extremely hard. It is around 200 years old. You can have it for free: it would be ok for making arrow nocks but probably not for anything else (Well, you might make a thumbring if you can carve it.)

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:24 am

Brazil wood was traded from the Indies for centuries for inlaying and for dyes. It definitely was used for nock sides. I have Turkish arrows with bakkam nocks. It is said that the country was named after the wood since the name predates the discovery of the Americas.

The wood or a variation was found in many countries. The Turks were rich and powerful even before they conquered Constantinople. They controlled the werstern terminus of the Silk Road and also had a strong presence in the Red Sea. Ottoman specialists were sent to help the Moguls in India so there is documentary evidence of their connections with one of the sources of the wood.

The amount of wood needed to make nocks was tiny. Only slivers were used. Turkish nocks were between 7 and 9 mm in diameter.

I think Stephen is right and any extremely hard wood would work. I have tried African blackwood and it seems to function.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:21 am

Ok. Thanks .Thats sound more realisticli for me. Trading betven asian and african countries have very old tradition.

AxelKuester · Post by **AxelKuester** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:05 pm

This wood is also called "Fernambuk" in germany (only?). Today it is used for high grade violin bows (fiddlesticks).

Contact a violin maker, perhaps he can give you some pieces.

Metin Ates · Post by **Metin Ates** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:14 pm

Thank you all for very informative sharing,

Bede: You're the man. Where can I find any supplier in Australia? You've been also summarized all answers about its source in the Ottoman Era.

Horn, bone and ivory were also used in Turkish arrowmaking. It was called "bashpare gez" (gez mean is nock). I've attached a photo taken from Military museum.

Many of materials was easily imported to Ottoman Empire? Because of big countries are big customers. So ivory, cane and logwood were came from India to make arrows.

Ashbow: great information! I checked Dr. Yucel's "Turkish Archery" book, he was described the relevant wood as "Caesalpinia sappan". The point is the family of this type of wood and it is "Caesalpiniaceae"

Most important specification of this wood is not only its hardness. It is also elastic as a nail. That is the point for the nock.

Stephen: Your offer is welcome and valuable for me! I have to find less 50 years old cedar arrow shafts for your aged gift before make it. I can take it in Korea if you participate to WTAF.

I attached some tired "Bakkam Gez" details from my friend Professor M. Orhan's collection. I hope, you'll find more information and pictures after the completing of my site's "equipment" section.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:25 am

Metin,
The timber merchant I bought from was Trend Timbers http://www.trendtimbers.com.au/. I have added their web site.[/url]

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:32 pm

Bede,
There's the picture of "logwood" nock made by you on Turkisharchery.info
I wander if that's the logwood you Guys discussed? It appears to be either purpleheart or more likely bloodwood to me

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:46 pm

in case you have a hard time finding the picture I was talking about: