References on Chinese costume?

Hyarmendacil · Post by **Hyarmendacil** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:58 am

Can anybody here recommend a good English-language resource about the details of the construction and wearing of traditional Chinese clothing from the Ming era or earlier? Most of the resources I can find are (naturally) in Chinese and that's a bit unfortunate because my Chinese skills are a bit lacking to say the least.

(I'm mostly interested in the Tang era because that's the timeframe for the horse archer outfit I'm planning to build when I'm done with teh Mamluk stuff, but I'd take anything all the way from the Warring States to the end of the Ming if I can get it.)

Dwanyin · Post by **Dwanyin** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:22 am

I'm not sure if there are any resources in English, the ones I can find are also all in Chinese.
But here are some Ming era Chinese clothes:

jiao · Post by **jiao** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:28 am

Dwanyin
what name of your chinese picture and where you find it /

Hyarmendacil:
are you chinese emigration at Indonesia? the typical chinese costume is y shape cross collar ，this is one i can translate other 3 i can not do it ,it from zhou to ming dynastic , tang dynastic clothing absorb other nation costume, the traditional chinese clothing only use in festival and important occasion, daily they are use other nation clothing,

here is a is a chinese link, i can not translate right
http://baike.baidu.com/view/4514.htm

Dwanyin · Post by **Dwanyin** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:42 am

The above picture is from a Ming era painting of the 5th emperor (1398-1435) of the Ming dynasty <明宣宗行樂圖>

Below is another contemporary painting of the same emperor hunting:

Hyarmendacil · Post by **Hyarmendacil** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:32 pm

The kind of details I'm looking for are...well, the "devil is in the details" kind of thing. Stuff like how to cut the cloth (rectangular or tailored), where to put the seams, what stitches to use (and not to use), how to tie the sash without getting weird looks from people who know better than me (and I guarantee that there'll be lots of them), and the like. Sure, there's a great deal I can learn indirectly from looking at these kinds of pictures (thanks for them, BTW--I've never seen two out of the three before), but I can't help wishing that I might be able to get rather more direct clues from people who have studied and experimented with the thing.

If there are really no comprehensive English-language resources, then...oh well. I guess I'll jut have to resort to trial and error until my Chinese is good enough.

(I don't know whether I qualify as part of the Chinese diaspora. My paternal grandfather certainly does, but my father--despite remaining ethnically Chinese--has been so assimilated into the local Javanese culture that he doesn't even speak Chinese and doesn't have a Chinese proper name. My mother is of course quite native, being the daughter of two runaway Javanese aristocrats.)

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:22 am

Here are some basic tips.
1. There was now tailoring of the shoulders and only shoulder seams when cloth ran short or making Western (i.e. Turkish) style coats.
2. On overlapping robes there was a central seam from top to bottom on the front and the back.
3. In the late Yuan and the Ming, there could be a seam around the waist to allow a gathered skirt for the robe.
4. The sleaves were attached at the selvedge (edge) of the main pieces of cloth. This was done because of the width of the cloth that came from the looms then in use.
5. Clothes could be laid out flat and the shoulders and sleeves would form a straight line.

This is only a brief description. There are exceptions.

There is a book in English called
5000 Years of Chinese Costumes by Zhou Xun (Editor), Gao Chunming (Author), Chunming Gao (Editor)

It does have lots of pictures organised by dynasty and pages of the layouts of garments.

Hyarmendacil · Post by **Hyarmendacil** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:22 pm

(Insert appropriate profanity.) That's exactly what I'm looking for! Seems like it's going to be a pretty big investment, but well worth the price. One more book to save for....

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:08 pm

There is a Chinese version as well. Be careful not to get the wrong one. It is also available on ABEBOOKS for less money:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchR ... me&x=0&y=0

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:49 am

For Yokhua's post on his Ming bow and the subsequent discussion, please see tne item 'Yuan/Ming Bow?'

Stephen

jiao · Post by **jiao** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:51 pm

other part of Ming dynasty <明宣宗行樂圖> ， it is a especial ming archery clothing

jiao · Post by **jiao** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:55 pm

jiao · Post by **jiao** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:40 pm

http://msn.myspace.cn/t/3665516.html
this painting show a event a ming emperor commands the army both hunting and attack 10000 Mongolia army intrude into ming frontier, this ming emperor killed three Trailbreaker and lots Mongolia die by the gun, he very love the korean hawk and food for the tribute, he is a emperor very enjoyment and stop the explore the sea.

i saw a picture at this wtaf a korean woman has same clothing(not 100% same)

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:44 am

Short-sleeved overcoats became popular in the Song dynasty. The style continued in the Yuan, but towards the end of the Yuan under Turkish or Iranian influence, they started to use coats that opened down the front. These became popular in the Ming.

In the Song, the coats were just for wear outdoors, but in the Ming it appears they were associated particularly with horse riding. The square collar is normal for the Ming, but much rarer in the Yuan.

The Koreans adopted many Ming fashions at court, but still retained their individuality in the details of the costumes.