the original mongol bows?

Alam ed Din, Adnan · Post by **Alam ed Din, Adnan** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:55 am

Have a look at the amazing Yuan horn bow build by Lukas Novotny

@full draw:
http://www.salukibow.com/images/hornbowyuan53drawn.jpg
Can anyone point out the differences/similarities between the Yuan bows and Mongolian bows of the conquest times or are they actually one and the same?
(picture links goes to his website - if there is problems I will remove the img tags)

robno · Post by **robno** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:32 pm

Just....wow! That must be one of the most beautiful bows I have ever seen.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:54 pm

Fantastic looking bow ! This is very close design old mongolian bows to me. Everytime when i see Lukas work i am proud, that he is from late Czechoslovakia like me .

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:40 pm

The Mongol conquest spawned the Yuan Dynasty of China so these terms are similar, The Mongol conquest was, however, much more encompassing in scope.

About the Novatny bow. I hold Lucas' talent in the highest regard. I actually sighed when I saw this bow.

Now some minor critique. That I know of there have been only three bows found from this exact era and place. Unfortunately, the conditions for good preservation have all occurred in the Taklamakan desert, This does not allow for much variation in provenience.

Where Lucas has triumphed is in the arm to siyah transition, which is roundish as in the originals. This is a difficult thing to achieve especially since there is no ridged section, kassan, as in later Turkic bows. The siyahs though are not shaped as the originals and somewhat lack the forward bend and the spatulate tips. As Stephen has pointed out, bows of the era had nocks cut very close to the ends.

The birch bark is masterful, the grip cover novel as are the rattan lashings.

This bow sets a very high bar to emulate.

Alam; Thanks eversomuch for posting the bow. If the images were smaller one could appreciate the curves better -j-

Alex S. · Post by **Alex S.** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:02 pm

This is really nice work!

I have one question, about bark.
I notice he has the grain of bark perpendicular to limb, is this safe?
Will the bark not split?

M Hardman · Post by **M Hardman** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:24 pm

I am highly impressed by his hornbows, they weren't shown on the site until recently. I notice that they are going for $2400 dollars, whereas Grozer hornbows are going for just 900 euros. (Roughly ?1200 and ?700, with this economic downturn who know knows what it might be in a weeks time). Quite a big difference. Is there such a massive difference in quality?

I'd jump at Novotny's bows, but the price tag keeps me off slightly...maybe when I'm richer.

I'm surprised that he has a section that seems to be aimed at educating non-archers...I'd never sell any form of hornbow to a novice.

Alam ed Din, Adnan · Post by **Alam ed Din, Adnan** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:07 pm

How and in what way did this bows differ from the ones used by the Ming?
If I was rich, I would buy from Lukas - but a good composite bow was never cheap, even 800 years ago it was a novelty. Which is why we have this great forum, we can actually learn to do it all ourselves, and even Lukas is very helpfull should you need any information.I also love his Mughal Kaman: ( slightly off topic - History Channel documentary) If some Indians could be taught how to build these, they could sell for as little as 250$ and the Sikh community would love some traditional archery, because their Gurus practiced it and judging from old paintings, they used the Kaman .Sikhs would certainly have an issue with the English word "Mughal Bow" though.

Harjinder S. Obhi:One of the most notable incidents involving archery in Sikh history relates to the death of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the 10th Guru and a co-founder of the Sikh religion. In 1708, 2 Pathan assassins attempted to kill him. One stabbed him in the chest, but the Guru responded with his sword and beheaded the attacker. The other Pathan was dealt with by the Guru's guards. The Guru's wounds were tended to by a Dr. Cole, I believe. Now, around this time, Guru Gobind Singh Ji had received a gift of a new, powerful bow. While his wounds were healing, he could not resist the temptation of trying the new bow out. Sadly, drawing the bow re-opened his chest wound and it began bleeding profusely. As a result, he died in October 1708, but by then the Sikh faith was well established.
Sikhs were known to hunt game for sport and as a means of sharpening their martial skills.
It is evident from historical records and paintings, that short recurve bows were used, probably shot using a thumb ring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGcYGwqb3So

Kyudohund · Post by **Kyudohund** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:37 am

Mike,

I think one of the reasons for this price-difference is, Novotny lives in the United States and Grozer in Hungary.
Hungary is directly in my neighbourhood and I am often there. I don?t discuss quality, but many things are much cheaper there than here in Austria.

Peter

Hyarmendacil · Post by **Hyarmendacil** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:01 pm

Alam ed Din, Adnan wrote:Have a look at the amazing Yuan horn bow build by Lukas Novotny

That damned bow is too pretty to be described with words...

*wipes drool off the keyboard*

PjSingh · Post by **PjSingh** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:14 pm

Hello everyone,I just thought i would mention there are not many traditional sikh archers left,I have personaly seen only 2 and their bows were not recurves but more like longbows and had metal springs to provide more tension like the cable backed bows.I was actually mentioning to a friend on line that if i lived in my grandmothers town (Agra)I could gather all the material to make the hornbow within 2 hours and within an area of 10 kilometers at the most,The wood like mango,mulberry,(growing in garden)Horn,To the halal butcher he's located in the Idgah 2 km from the house also would get sinew from him and then when the bow was ready I could have it decorated by a mastercraftsman.Agra is still a centre for mughal arts and crafts,I dont think that Sikhs will have a problem with the name Mughal bow as they were always more than happy to incorporate newer weapons into their arsenal,irregardless who they were made by.

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:36 pm

Kyudo. was right. In post socialist countrys was 1000 euro evan 18 years big money. But mi friends (from western Europa) 2400 dol. is not too much for you.In principle 1000 euro is for us same medium wages for one months work like 2400 US dol. for you...

Orda Khan · Post by **Orda Khan** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:07 am

The bows are beautiful, but I also think they are over priced. Good luck to anyone who has that amount of spare cash to lay out on a bow.