Japanese battlefield archery old documentary

Ashbow · Post by **Ashbow** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:36 pm

I came across this old movie, it shows Japanese battlefield archery techniques as one who doesn?t understand Japanese can assume.

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTLCKDRIg14
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtCb_yHd ... re=related
part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ge-vxt ... re=related

Note the special way of tying arrows to ebira quiver, shooting in a kneeling position with bunch of arrows for the quick use rested on the left leg and drawing arrows from quiver and nocking in an almost lying position.
I suppose there are shown some other important aspects, obvious when you understand the text.

Enjoy

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:45 pm

Thank you. Good video. Especialy is clear that kyudo isńt about "zen " and searching a secret soul or another ... Its normal war archery like all over the world.

Jos?Dom · Post by **Jos?Dom** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:44 pm

These videos are part of the Nihon Kobudo Series, filmed during the 60s (I think) to promote martial arts. This is a Satsuma war technique demonstration. A similar demonstration was shown in Korea's last world festival.

Jos?Dom · Post by **Jos?Dom** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:48 pm

I was wrong about the time these videos were filmed:

"During the 1970's the Japanese Ministry of Education filmed many of the traditional koryu (traditional martial arts before the Meiji Era). These videos are in many cases the only footage available of a particular school and feature high ranking members demontrating the art. In total, the Nihon Kobudo series is 80 volumes."

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:02 am

Dusan,
War archery was called kyujutsu, bow technique. Kyudo is the way of the bow and is quite Zen and also quite different from military archery as you already know.

In Korea there were some very good demonstrations of Japanese military archery. One thing that impressed people mainly familiar with Kyudo was the speed of shooting that was achieved. It is obvious in retrospect that military archers had to shoot quickly, but it is rare to see it done in Japanese archery. The best part was that the archers did not look rushed and maintained the grace that is characteristic of Japanese archery.

Ashbow · Post by **Ashbow** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:06 pm

Hi Dusan,
Yes, Incidentally someone has called this video ?Old Kyudo movie?.
I think it?s because people sometimes think of the term kyudo as a synonym for all the forms of the Japanese Archery. I doubt if it?s correct but maybe I?m wrong.
I doubt if we can for example refer to yabusame as kyudo?
I understand that the term kyudo refers rather to standardized ceremonial shooting with emphasis on spiritual development and has nothing to do with shooting at an enemy, like Bede has explained. Of course modern kyudo has it?s roots in techniques taught by various martial ryu schools but it?s also a descendant of ancient Chinese ceremonial archery.
In the book by Hideharu Onuma sensei I?ve read that the term kyudo itself was probably first used by the end of seventeenth cent. the time when archery was starting to play bigger role in the social aspect.

Jos?, thank you for the info.
I think I found a link offering the video.
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer ... 307&page=1

And by the way I also found another ?kyudo? offer, look at this horrible cover!
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer ... ctid=25102

Behold the yumi that men is drawing looks like strung backwards, and the technique... and the arrows?

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:44 pm

All this i understand and know , folks, I don?t like the way that martial arts proceed when they lose their original function and put on the mask of spiritual excercise.

jack farrell · Post by **jack farrell** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:09 pm

Dusan; I am not big on spirituality but the spiritual aspect of archery is extremely ancient and parallel to warfare, sports and hunting.

Archery for spiritual, philosophical purposes dates to at least the neolithic. This was a surprise to me also. Divination by arrows predates all the world's religions. -j-

Dusan · Post by **Dusan** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:45 pm

Yes, but if it is ancietnt or not ,its don?t inevitable , that you must trust and honor all this spiritual games. In ancient days have spiritual aspects all over- sex, food, game animals , tools ...all. Mostly in asian figighting and hunting cultures. For me is bow fighting and hunting weapon. Thats all. If anybody wants to pray to a bow , or searching secret soul - its his choice.

Alex S. · Post by **Alex S.** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:22 pm

To understand word, you need know Japanese language.
Kyudo, is not one word, but two together.

They are Kyu (弓)and dou (道)

Kyu, means bow
Dou, means a way, road, or way to do something.

The other term kyujutsu is also two words. (弓術)

The second is jutsu (術)
This means a skill or special feat. It also mean method or technique.

Now, with this there is clearer view of the two terms.

-------------------------
btw, that cover is just...omg!

Thomas Duvernay · Post by **Thomas Duvernay** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:28 pm

Alex S. wrote:To understand word, you need know Japanese language.
Kyudo, is not one word, but two together.

They are Kyu (弓)and dou (道)

Kyu, means bow
Dou, means a way, road, or way to do something.

The other term kyujutsu is also two words. (弓術)

The second is jutsu (術)
This means a skill or special feat. It also mean method or technique.

Now, with this there is clearer view of the two terms.

-------------------------
btw, that cover is just...omg!

Anyone who has read my book on Korea trad archery knows the terminology is also a bit controversial in Korea, too. Goongdo (弓道) was a term the Japanese gave to Korean archery during their colonial period (1910-1945), the characters being the same as "kyudo". Before that, the term "goongsool" (弓術) (bow technique) was common. What you will often see nowadays is "hwalssogi", a pure Korean term, which is, literally, "bow shooting".

robno · Post by **robno** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:59 am

So...can someone shed light on all this then:
From what I had seen in different sources (wikipedia being the only I can find again right now), kyudo did not really exist until the Tokugawa-period - before that it was only kyujutsu.

Is this or is this not correct?

Mister Micawber · Post by **Mister Micawber** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:42 am

.
Well, who knows when Japanese archers actually first said "kyudo", but Ogasawara ryu was founded in the 12th/13th century and Heki ryu was founded in the 15th century. That gives them a couple of hundred years to start using the term before the Tokugawa Shogunate.
.

Hyarmendacil · Post by **Hyarmendacil** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:24 pm

There's a color video of another Heki-ryu demonstration (it's not clear whether this one is of the Insai-ha or Satsuma-ha) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSxuQ5ahRJ4

Stephen Selby · Post by **Stephen Selby** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:35 am

Korea and Japan have widely adopted the old Chinese term 'dao' (道) which implies a skill based on an objective set of rules shared by a community. The word Jap. 'jitsu' / Kor. 'sul' use the Chinese word 'shu' (述) which implies an individual skill.

In China, 'dao' has not been used traditionally in relation to the martial arts. 'Shu' is used in relation to popular martial arts, and 'yi' (藝) is used in relation to imperial or official military skills. Some early Japanese texts used the Chinese term (射藝) (Jap. sha-gi) to refer to archery.